This isn't meant to be a rant. I'm really curious as to why this exists.It's commonplace and a common joke among designers when clients suggest things that are bad design ideas. But in the past couple years I've ran into this in increasing amounts (both amounts of clients and the amount of horrid design requests per client).I'm speaking of more than just a poor font color. It's like they saw a funny collection of the worst web sites and business cards designed by high school students in 1997 and wet their pants with excitement. These designs don't target their markets or present an image that fits their branding.- Is the market so saturated with remedial corny designs that folks think that's what they should aim for, against better judgment and advice?- Are there too many tools out there now to make easy unnecessary effects?- Can I blame myspace and crappy-looking blogs? Do clients unconsciously want to gravitate towards that to feel they're in the loop?- Do they think the flashing text and a rotating logo will draw people's attention? Or that anyone is impressed by that in this day and age?- Are there hidden cameras following me? Really! When the reputable business client asked for a swimming fish floating over the website and a cursor that shoots sparks, I swear it was a joke.
can you please make it blink too?
Clients need to be protected against themselves. That's why they hire professionals ;o)
Unfortunately I think the answer for the most of your questions is "Yes".And... about the last one... "reputable business client" is not necessarily a synonym to "tasteful person".And I'm not allowed to say anything about the cameras.
Sounds like the first website I built about 10 years ago. It had no purpose other than to see how many blinkies, sparklies, animations, clip art, rotating text, etc. I could cram on the page. It didn't matter that it took 10 minutes to load.
Oooo, that's a tough one. Client "Joe Shmoe" hires design firm "Best in World". World does all the research about Shmoe's business and his top competitors. World consults with Schmoe with an in depth presentation that is not about "flash" but subsidence and solid direction on what would be best for his business. But in Shmoe's mind he already knows what is best. He wants to just have World create his vision without their professional input. Yet, if Shmoe's idea's were so good why does he need World? Basically he wants to be the designer and art director of World and just use them for construction. How can World possibly help Shmoe if he thinks all his ideas are "it". It is a very frustrating situation that happens in many types of jobs. Where the client always thinks they know better and is a poor listener. The client came to you for your expertise, yet they wont listen. I am a retired graphic designer/art director and it is so hard to create for someone who just will not let you. I am an equestrian instructor and trainer. My worst clients are the ones who think they know more/better than me. I am so perplexed by those kind. If you what's best, then what did you come to me for? You are PAYING me to help you and yet you keep telling me what to do? I chalk it up to human nature, personalities, how people communicate. Some you mesh well with and can make a difference by providing the service they hired you for. Or even the difficult ones you can win over as they trust you more perhaps they were burned by a previous service before. And then there are the one's that no matter what you do, it just does not sink in. I cut my losses on those types, it really is just not worth the aggravation.
I think there are too many people who took a weekend class in design and they want to "use" their skills. If they don't put *everything* onto your web page, then why did you go to that class and why couldn't your client just hire someone else who make a plain old (read: usefull and pleasant) page?Layer onto that the realization that the web consultant doesn't need to suffer seeing the page, they moved on to the next client.
Reminds of a spoof song called "Make the logo bigger" about a bad client that all he cares about is seeing his logo bigger-than-life on anything and everything. To hell with the rest of the brochure!I run into some clients that tend to like bad design. They come in with an idea and want to stick with it. They don't care about the leading or kerning. Or that a script font should not be in all caps. They don't care that an animated pumpkin does not make a great mascot for an automotive repair shop too. Just make the logo bigger!
http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/ something for you to read :).
Thanks for all the input!
DragonTat7 saidStuff
You've really expressed the situation well. Yeah, sometimes cutting losses is the best solution. Not always easy to do.Maybe I'm crazy. It just seems like this is more common. Or maybe it's just because there's more distance between now and when gifs and scrolling messages were cool, and one would expect people to move with the times.
carmsie saidhttp://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/something for you to read :).
That's brilliant. :D Thanks.
It's the curse of this profession. Everyone has eyes and thoughts (well, almost ;o) ) and usually everyone thinks that these attributes are qualifying them to be a designer, an art director, copywriter, director, photographer (omg, have anyone mentioned the 'use the photo I took of my kid for this ad' type of requests?)... etc. Yet, they all need a professional... who makes the living out of fulfilling the terrible ideas. And that's my point.Who's to blame? I think us, the ones who actually knows what and how to. Because we don't say no 'cos we afraid to loose the client... and a client certainly will find another pro... so the result would be the same amount of crap in the world but less money in ones pocket.I think there's a way out of this. I used to work like everyone else and had to fulfill - almost - all the requests. Sometimes I managed to talk some sense into the clients head, but not very often. And I felt bad, I actually started to hate what I do. Then I quit doing it this way... and now I can say no and I say no, even if I loose some clients (sometimes I do). Less money? Yes. But feeling bad is not something I want to be payed for. :o)And one more thing: Surprisingly since I've started to work like this, I love what I do again. I have more assignments and I'm payed better. I don't have to explain every time I show my portfolio that this or that design is bad but it was some clients idea. :o)Courage. Saying no (at the right time) not equals dying. It's the opposite. :o)
octavius saidSaying no (at the right time) not equals dying. It's the opposite.
I reckon that's the best way to approach it, if you feel you're good enough that you can afford to lose some clients. If you're also able to do it politely you shouldn't lose many.
dit
As well as a NSFW work warning, it also needs one stating that it may crash your browser. Nearly crashed mine.
/ditNot a logo/banner, but you guys don't know what bad design is till you've seen that:http://www.ingenfeld.de/
Well, I will try and answer your original question, as expressed in the thread title.There are two types of buisness out there, corporate companies and personal enterprises.In the coporate company there are experts, managers, consultants and directors for every part of the companies activity. They do market reseach and design products aimed at specific sectors of market, designing products that will have as wide as possible appeal in that sector. They research the type of people who will be buying that product, and match them to the marketing and activity styles that have been shown to be most successful. They adhere to strict guidelines. The personal enterprise is headed by a specific individual, usually hard headed and the founder of the enterprise. These companies do not make much use of consultants and experts, don't even have any meetings. Whenever a decision is to made they ask 'The Boss' and he selects what he likes best. period. These enterprises do not care much for analysing the market they offer the product that boss has in mind, it tends to be quite different from the market average but it does reflect a specific opinion, that of the owner. The success of the company depends entirely on how many people think the same way as the boss, or at least accept what the bosses opinion of what the product should be.People in corporate companies tend to be very scornful of private enterprise. In many cases rightly so, most personal enterprises have a limited customer base, and cannot grow. But in some cases the boss really has his finger on the button and they enjoy grand success.Here is the website of a big corporate airline:http://www.britishairways.com/travel/globalgateway.jsp/global/public/en_ No doubt that site has been desined by a team of experts after doing lots of market research and hiring consultants, and generally following the rules. I assume this is the type of website the OP likes.Here is the wesite of a personal enterprise airline:http://www.ryanair.com/en I imagine this represents everything the OP dislikes, and I have no doubt that Michael O'Leary, Ryanairs charismatic founder and boss, was personally involved in the design of the website. What he liked went in, what he did not like was chopped.And yet Ryanair is enjoying great success going from strength to strength, whilst British Airways is, as they would say in corporate speak, "Embarking on an ambitous program of restructuring and rightsizing in order to meet the challanges of the global economic downturn". Or as Michael O'learly would probably put it, "They are up the creek".Whatever the reasons, personal enterprise headed by a hard headed individual who wants everything done the way he likes enjoy a lot of success, and it is fundamental to this type of comapny that everything **is** done **exactly** as he wants, half measures don't work.So the graphics designer must establish what type of customer he or she is working for, and adapt accordingly. If the customer is the sort of company that goes by the safe sterile rules they will ask for something that will be used to sell a specific type of product or service to a specific type of market, and expect you to come up with an approach with a wide appeal that follows the rules.The personal enterprise, on the other hand, will approach the graphics designer with specific requests, like "we want lot's of scantily clad girls on a purple background with lot's a flashing stars (preferably lime green because the boss likes lime green). In these cases it is useless, and incorrect, to try and suggest that it might be better to study balanced color schemes and that scantily clad women may be considered distasteful or offensive to many people; your job is to try and find the best way to combine flashing green stars on purple backgrounds and the most tasteful way to incorporate scantily clad women. Because at the end of the day thier activity is specifically targetting people who will like or accept that specific style, they are not looking for the widest possible appeal.
+ in reply to...
LOL!!! Thats so disgustingly funny. A definite "Do-It-Yourself" kind.
You need to throw a "NSFW" on that. Picture on the right rail.
Damn, and I spent a few hours making a blinking eye for my site, back to the drawing board.
we call it the "geocities syndrome".this happens in other endeavors. get a hit song as a producer or engineer and clients will flock to you so your name can be on their "masterpiece". the catch is that they want you to implement their "great" ideas but use your name.my most recent frustrating client is a nice fellow who is far sighted and will not wear his reading glasses to proof my work. try doing a CD label with 64 point text on all the song titles.another way of looking at it is to consider the average IQ. I have no idea what it is now but when it was 100 on the SB scale the implication was an IQ of 130 would result in some poor soul with a room temperature IQ of 70 to balance the equation. those folks are the client base. do the work. get paid.or, as Dilbert so eloquently put it, "a job is somebody paying you to do what you don't want to do."Worth is here, rather like an olive between courses, to help chase away the last flavor and allow greater enjoyment of the next one.
Very well worded and great examples!!!
I loose a few. Inevitably.The rest worths keepin' :o)Hope they feel the same way too ;o)
I was so free and quoted your post. :) Hope that's enough.Didn't really noticed that comic grrrl undressing, sorry. xD
Tonebarge saida job is somebody paying you to do what you don't want to do
What I do I don't consider a job. Being successful means you do what you like and get paid for it. :oP :o)Also... I have an idea. How about starting up a thread for the worst design? The problem is clients don't get enough feedback once their design is done. They're maybe satisfied ('cos it looks like they wanted to), but I've never heard of a costumer who've said to a client that 'I like your services but your design is a big pile of crap'. :o)So - given the few very good (ergh, baaaad) examples - I suggest to start a thread to find the Worst Design The World Ever Seen. Maybe (maybe!) if such a community like this - full of well qualified designers - says that something is crap, the clients will believe that they need a professional to do their designs as well as they go to the dentist with a toothache. (And I've never heard that someone ever tried to tell to a dentist how to do his job... ;o) )What ye think all? :o)
octavius saidWhat ye think all? :o)
I think that could be great fun.Perhaps we should run a contest were you have to submit a link to the worst website. We vote on which we think is the worst (come on, vote fairly, if you think it's really trash give it that elusive 1...), and then the 'winning' site gets to recieve a 'Worthless1000' award.
Would we have to vote a 10 to the worst (that'd win the contest) or 1? Must set up the rules carefully or we may end up awarding the best worst design @-)