secretatlantis saidlatin was used in catholic churches until my early childhood.
Latin still is the official language of the Vatican. And they update it to add modern terms. Don't know if you could find a 'Interretialiter Relatum Colloquium' channel where they speak Latin thougth.Mind you, the curch in this case is a protestant reformist church. One of the driving forces behind the protestant movement in England was William Tyndale who was burned at the stake for translating the bible into the Vernacular toungue so that people could actually understand it :DUse of Latin does speak volumes about documents in this era thougth. A document destined to be read by commoners would not use latin, wheras more formal and acadmeic documents would frequently avoid the vernacular. Partly by necessity due to the limitations of the vernacular toungues, partly by practicality (latin was universally known throughout europe and was used much as a standard language like english is today, ironic really!), but some of it seems just to be the snob factor.Leastways that is how I understood it was in england, I think German was in a very similar situation.
Just getting back to the OP, which one is KGrobblers ancestor, the landowner, the bishop or the King of Prussia :D
no no no, after all that you can't leave us hanging just so you can go to bed!!!! :)---I think the drop cap at the bottom is really pretty. Can some who can read the script find all the letters of the alphabet in this, it would be a nice hand font.
Sorry there won't be all the letters of the modern english alphabet, basicly because it is a different language :DYou are probably well are of the 'extra' characters you get in the character sets, such and , which are needed in other European languages. Well what you might not know is that some of the letters you take for granted in english are 'extra' letters that do not appear in the official alphabets of all european languages. W, for example, which we call 'Double U' is often a 'foreign' character and called 'double V'. But try saying that in Italian, 'doppia-vue' and it actually sounds like the way we pronounce 'W'.
You really impresses me Min :)
That is absolutely amazing, LadyMin! Thank you so much - I don't know whether I would have been able to read the calligraphy had it been in English!!!
+ in reply to...
This is not that astonishing considering that I AM German. ;)
Second part, completed:----------------------------------No. 81. Rescript how the argument about the priestly and parochial "huffen", if they are propriety of the priests or bona censitica, is to be solved.Friderich, King of Prussia.It is already known how We ordered to proceed concerning the argument arisen from the most humble introduction of the estates of the Kurmark and our local chamber of office, which is between the R. von Trotten and his preacher of Wiedenburg and Badingen, about the priest-huffen in Appellationis Instantia, and how We relayed this to our privy councils Hlsemann, Fuchs and Neuhausen. After those beforementioned have most humbly given us a full account, and after We found their most humble opinion founded in laws, we order in grace [the following]: Not only shall you bring this argument between the R. von Trotten and his preacher to conformity without allowing any delay or continuance of an Appellations Processus which only fragments [means:wastes] money and reform the official notification that you gave out on October 22nd, but [you shall] also from now on [assure], whenever it happens in the Matricul-notification of the Priest-Huffen, which belong to others, that they give a part of it without the particula, at the moment, ratione possesiones added to it, and it can not be proven that the preachers ever had those Huffen under their own plough and culture [meaning, I think, that they ever lived from it], in this case these Huffen [shall] not be confiderated [=be treated as] Priest-Huffen, but only as bona censitica, and thus shall you speak [= speak law] under all those circumstances; also shall all of you whom we gave the responsibility of church-visitation [I think he means official visits, checking accounts and such], when investigating and arranging the Matriculn, pay attention to this. Cologne by the Spree, December 15th 1711.To the Consistorium.
OK, wrapping it up. The second one (roughly) paraphrased is about an argument between a certain R. von Trotten and his preacher of Wiedenburg and Badingen. It was investigate by Friedrich's privy councilmen, the gents being named Hlsemann, Fuchs and Neuhausen. The topic was if some piece of land could be called a "Huffe", or belongs to "bona censitica". I have no idea what exactly the difference is, but I am sure it's of a monetary nature.Anyway, Friedrich, having listened to his 3 councilmen, decrees:1. End this argument immediately. It's a waste of time and money.2. Revert what you decided on October 22, it was wrong.3. If the priests cannot prove that they have lived on and by this piece of land, it is not a prieft-Huffe (whatever that is), but counts as bona censitica.4. This counts not only for this case, but also in all cases from now on.
Well, it actually WAs kinda tricky. Not the old font (I am used to that), but many words were written differently in 1711 than they are today, and this is law specific stuff. Reading legal texts is complicated even nowadays. ;)I translate stuff at work from time to time, and usually I do between 1 - 3 pages per hous, depending on how technical the text is, but this one page took me more than two.You ARE aware of my hourly rates? ;)))
Additionally, I arranged it in a jpg, so that it be easier to understand which belongs where:Here it is.And now you REALLY have to tell us who your ancestor is. I guess either R. von Trotten or one of the three councilmen (Hlsemann, Fuchs and Neuhausen). ;)
LadyMin - this is absolutely amazing!!! You've been outstanding! Truly. I would not ask for a repeat performance of this without offering compensation. After seeing what is actually involved, I was a bit abashed at my audacity! :P
Well, for me it is.At least down here in bavaria most natives are unable to communicate by using proper german.Hahah... bad joke friday just reached a new low.Sorry.I just wasn't aware of the fact that you are also from germany. :)
This thread wins for the most educational for me in a long time. Thank you KGrobler for posting it, Min for all the work and ercolano for the running commentary. I have really enjoyed this!
Don't worry, I know that! I did it because it also was tons of fun. I haven't worked on old text since university, and I wanted to see if I still could. Apparently I can. ;)I would've preferred a medieval text, but you can't have everything, can you.Although, if you ever get back as far as that with your genealogy, please come back here with the sources. :p
Xaromir saidAt least down here in bavaria most natives are unable to communicate by using proper german.
I have to agree. :pAnd yes I am, from Cologne. Some call me the pasty Frulein, but this endearment is not for everyone to use. ;)
:D A pleasure!
LadyMin saidpasty Frulein
TASTY!!! :D